Sea Control 534 – NATO’s Navies at 75 with Dr. Josh Tallis

By Jared Samuelson

Dr. Josh Tallis makes his annual visit to the podcast to discuss NATO’s navies at 75. Josh is a senior research scientist at the Center for Naval Analyses (CNA). From 2021 to 2023, he served as the CNA field representative to the Commander of U.S. Sixth Fleet and Naval Striking and Support Forces NATO.

Download Sea Control 534 – NATO’s Navies at 75 with Dr. Josh Tallis


1. “NATO’s Navies at 75: Operational Imperatives to Watch,” by Joshua Tallis, Proceedings, April 2024.

2. Sea Control 197 – Naval Great Power Competition with Dr. Joshua Tallis and Hunter Stires, CIMSEC, August 30, 2020.

3. Sea Control 250 – Dr. Joshua Tallis on Arctic Strategy, CIMSEC, May 16, 2021.

4. Sea Control 408 – NATO’s Maritime Future with Dr. Joshua Tallis, CIMSEC, January 29, 2023.

Jared Samuelson is Co-Host and Executive Producer of the Sea Control podcast. Contact the podcast team at

This episode was edited and produced by William McQuiston.

2 thoughts on “Sea Control 534 – NATO’s Navies at 75 with Dr. Josh Tallis”

  1. Great conversation! Regarding results from the Red Sea: Sidewinders and air-to-air kills probably helped to save shipboard magazines in the Red Sea fighting. Sidewinders were so successful that fast turn-around approvals were made for additional AIM-9 mounts on Hornets and new mounts on Growlers. NATO carrier aviation and possibly rotary-wing may all be used to “weaponeer the kill” and manage limited SAM magazines. Shipboard guns made drone kills (German, Danish and French ships are the ones I am aware of) saving missiles for other targets. This doesn’t expand missile magazines, but does conserve them for the suitable targets and tactical scenarios.

    Jared’s criticism of the limited air defense of frigates has a historical basis and was demonstrated in the Falklands. Many RN ships, while fighting valiantly, were in reality capable of limited point defense against Argentinian air strikes. Replace the Argentine A-4’s and Mirages with Kalibrs and high-speed ASM’s; next swap Sea Cat with ESSM. The same situation will be played out.

    Lastly, if SpaceX can land their stages and boosters, how is it that UNREP for VLS reloads is not commonplace? Of course, a navy would need destroyer tenders perhaps to carry out this role. Given the size of the SM-2 and 3, alright I will accept that is a challenge. Let’s start a NATO “Warp Speed” effort for ESSM at-sea reloads, and ASTER. Then work up to the SM-family.

  2. Thanks for listening and providing feedback, Bob! I will never understand how you build something larger than a cruiser and then give it armament that would underwhelm if it were on a frigate.

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